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I didn't find the article, but I agree that an international move shouldn't be a spontaneous decision, but based on verified facts. Our reasons for coming to Portugal are still valid after almost 10 years. However, I have seen quite a few foreigners leave Portugal frustrated after some time.

@JohnnyPT

Many thanks

Thanks for posting that, Johnny!

It sounded a little ill considered to me.  It's probably harder to get away with that in France, than here - I don't know if you'd find the family doctor or the frozen yogurt in the English-speaking enclaves in the Algarve, but you'd have people to talk to.

Foreign countries are foreign, particularly when the language is different.  I'll probably never really be at home the way I was in America - with time maybe something a little like it, but not the same.  I suppose a lot of people wouldn't like that.

Though an "newspaper" article so not written by themselves in their own words Shirley it is a bit naive (arrogant?)  to expect to live in France deal with administration, integrate etc.  without speaking and understanding some French.   Seems a bit like they are blaming France for being French.

There's one thing: the French may be friendly, but they hate speaking any language other than French in their own country... Most often they don't even bother trying to understand you.

@JohnnyPT

I think this is true for all big countries, just thinking of e.g. Germany, France, Italy and Spain. The Netherlands and Scandinavia are easier because more people speak English. And Portugal is great as well (as long as one stays in Lisbon, Porto or the Algarve).

Overall, I doubt that it is a good idea to become an expat very late in life. Me and my wife are used to it for over 30 years, but I guess I wouldn't change countries for the first time in life at 70.

@Strontium

I agree. I have said it before on this forum about trying to learn Portuguese. It will increase ones quality of life here hugely. When I did my citizenship language test I was amazed at how many people had studied and were taking the exam. Kudos to everyone, only one person didn't pass.

Two good examples with expats in 2024: Good integration with local communities, far away from main cities and expat clusters:

Northern Portugal, harvests on a family farm

Central Portugal, annual festival in a small village and socialising with neighbours

- @Santi2

If you didn't  know that's an "ad" from a company selling insurance rather them an objective opinion so MAY be biased to get readers to purchace their product(s). Obviously I'd not even hint you may be one of their sales persons. 

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And before you surmise, no, I do not sell anything on investopedia or Wikipedia.

What do you sell?

Visa experts, Portuguese language trainers, realtors ready to assist you in your moving to dreamland, coaches, helpers, advisors...all salivating to take advantage of naive would be expats.

Visa experts, Portuguese language trainers, realtors ready to assist you in your moving to dreamland, coaches, helpers, advisors...all salivating to take advantage of naive would be expats. - @Santi2

It is definitely ONE purpose of those immigrating to Portugal to make money for those residing in the country already. The immigrants are supposed to bring money, not take money. Is anybody surprised?

@Perpetual_traveler

Thanks for drawing attention to this. Expectations and reality won't match specially when people fail to prepare & research properly before the big move.

In Portugal, 60% of expats give up and leave before 2 years in the country, some of the remaining 40% will also leave later.

Reasons? There are many but the most glaring are that they failled to check the tax implications of being a resident in Portugal.

In the CNN articles about US citizens moving to France and Italy, the disappointments stemmed from the lack of correct preparation, learning the language at basic level before moving, checking the tax implication, and that they could meet all the requirements to get residency visas.

A US expat living in Portugal for several years said in his Youtube channel that most US citizens he knows moved to Portugal without realizing there are tax implications and when they are aready there and hear about portuguese tax, they go: Tax? What tax? I'm american.

@Mariza.says

Very good points and interesting stats!

To be honest, now that the NHR is gone, if you don't have it I question the sense of coming to Portugal. Not because it isn't an amazing country - which it is - but aside from that tax implications now, the accommodation situation is so difficult. And then, factor in the bureaucratic problems just getting smoothly settled via AIMA etc. It's hard enough for those already here, so for prospective immigrants with stars in their eyes, I don't know if its worth it.

Many countries are starting to make it harder via setting the bar higher. Look at Spain, now you will have to prove 4x Required Annual Amount (4x Euro37k = Euro150k upfront) if what I am hearing is correct, at least in some areas - and you can be sure that those areas are the ones that people mainly want to go to.

@@Mariza.says

I don't understand where you got these statistics.... probably from the agency that gave the victory to Kamala Harris.... There are many expats who stay in the country and don't leave after 2 years. Many stay after 10 years of NHR, even subject to taxes. With regard to American expats, saying ‘Tax? What tax? I'm American’ is ridiculous to say the least and labels them as stupid. Anyway... There's always a little bit of fun in this terrible world of wars....

I have to admit that we were a little unprepared for our tax this first year, clueless Americans that we are.  It's possible that it didn't really have to be that gigantic and the tax prep guy just missed a bet, but in any case, this is how life is in the country we have come to.  Tax is heavy.  Would we like to go back to America where the tax is less?  Ha ha, no.  It seems unlikely to me that this is really so often a motivating factor.  If you have such a big tax bill, it's because you're pulling in a lot of money, so ... is there a real problem here?

The reasons featured in the CNN articles seem more compelling to me.   Or to look at it another way:  if living in a foreign country is just to save money, then sure, most people won't last long on that program.

@@Mariza.says
I don't understand where you got these statistics.... probably from the agency that gave the victory to Kamala Harris.... There are many expats who stay in the country and don't leave after 2 years. Many stay after 10 years of NHR, even subject to taxes. With regard to American expats, saying ‘Tax? What tax? I'm American’ is ridiculous to say the least and labels them as stupid. Anyway... There's always a little bit of fun in this terrible world of wars.... - @JohnnyPT

The 60% - 40% figures are from the Instituto Nacional de Estatistica de Lisboa, so they are official figures, mentioned in a documentary by the official TV channel RTP about the advantages vs disadvantages of immigration into Portugal and how it is affecting housing.

This documentary also pointed out that most foreigners applying for residency visas are not planning to stay in Portugal, they just want an EU passport. So... as soon as they get their EU passports some more will leave PT.

As for the comment about "Tax? What tax? I'm american." not my words, but the exact words of an american resident in Portugal. He and his wife had a few more colourfull insights.

But what kind of immigrants are we talking about? Working or retired? Ages and goals? Where do they come from? Let's not put everything in the same basket, OK? If we're talking about Indians or Bangladeshis, and most age working asians, what you say is true. If we're talking about Brazilians, that's not the case. If we're talking about English people, few want an EU passport, but most don't care about it, they just want to relax and sunbathe. There are Italians, French and northern Europeans who don't need a Portuguese passport for anything, and after the 10-year tax exemption they remain in Portugal. Retired Americans a remote workers basically choose Portugal (and other European countries) to escape the current state of the USA and to serve as a base for getting to know the whole of Europe in a more economical way.

In addition, nationality / passport is only obtained after 5 years (and not 2 or 4 as you say) and after passing a Portuguese language exam.

All of this was probably mentioned in the INE study and is not reflected in your conclusions here. This idea of a 40%-60% generalisation is abusive and should be looked at on a case-by-case basis, age and origin, and so on...

With regard to this American couple, this is unfortunately a case of pure ignorance, which should not be generalised to all American expats. OK? Anyone knows that if you're an expat in a country for at least 6 months + 1 day, you become a tax resident in that country. And everyone knows that there are agreements to avoid double taxation between Portugal and 80 countries, at least....

That might be the source of part of the confusion.  There's an agreement of that nature between Portugal and the US, right?  Yet I paid as much as ever to the US, and far more to Portugal.  I don't pretend to really understand this, and I can't guarantee our taxes were handled correctly, but here's how one online author (Lewis Grunfeld, CPA) puts it:

The Portugal US tax treaty contains a "savings clause" which preserves the right of the U.S. to impose taxes on its citizens according to its own laws, even if this contradicts the provisions of the treaty. As a result of this clause, the majority of the benefits and reductions offered by the treaty do not apply to U.S. citizens living in Portugal.

@donn25

As far as I know (and I'm not an expert) all US citizens have to continue paying tax in US even when they live abroad. It is not just something between Portugal and US, it happens to US citizens who move out of US to anywhere in the world. Portugal does not have any influence on this.

The US is the only country in the world who does this, I've read somewhere.

The only way to stop paying tax in the US is to renounce US citizenship, but this option is only available for dual citizens and cannot be reversed.

All other countries, including EU countries, only tax residents.

But what kind of immigrants are we talking about? Working or retired? Ages and goals? Where do they come from? Let's not put everything in the same basket, OK? If we're talking about Indians or Bangladeshis, and most age working asians, what you say is true. If we're talking about Brazilians, that's not the case. If we're talking about English people, few want an EU passport, but most don't care about it, they just want to relax and sunbathe. There are Italians, French and northern Europeans who don't need a Portuguese passport for anything, and after the 10-year tax exemption they remain in Portugal. Retired Americans a remote workers basically choose Portugal (and other European countries) to escape the current state of the USA and to serve as a base for getting to know the whole of Europe in a more economical way.
In addition, nationality / passport is only obtained after 5 years (and not 2 or 4 as you say) and after passing a Portuguese language exam.

- @JohnnyPT

I think that the 60% - 40% mentioned above is probably correct if originating from a bureau of statistics in Lisbon. However, I couldn't find any information broken down in the way you mention (Indians, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Brazilians,... workers, retirees). Do you have a link?

In Portugal it is easy to get a citizenship, compared to other EU countries (especially because only A2 language proficiency is required and courses are often free). This is why Portugal is the ideal entry point for many. Once one is a Portuguese citizen one can optimize taxes by becoming a permanent resident in another - more tax friendly - EU country.

Overall, I doubt that it is a good idea to become an expat very late in life. Me and my wife are used to it for over 30 years, but I guess I wouldn't change countries for the first time in life at 70. - @TGCampo

Actually a lot of people do it nowadays. Earn their money in a developed/richer country then spend it in another country where the cost of living is lower. Does everybody adapt? Probably not. But more and more people become expats later in life.

@ctomac

I am holding nobody back. Go for it!

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So someone with a handle "Lewis"   is recommending  an article written by someone called  "Lewis"  from a website purportedly run by "Lewis" offering services by "Lewis"  !!

..., I found that it gives a solid oversight of the options for moving to Portugal, things to consider before moving, and life in Portugal. A lot of it applies to anyone thinking about moving to Portugal.
- @LewisNG

Advertising for own purposes is not allowed here...

@Strontium

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